Shifti - User contributions [en]

Talk:Paradise (Setting)

2009-06-15T21:47:54Z

71.131.113.134: /* The "Posthuman" World */

It's an interesting setting, what I've read so far, and I've got an idea or two percolating that may or may not come to fruition. A seed is trying to sprout for an idea starting in '05 and going forward.

One little detail though, (and it doesn't really apply to me but may for others), removing hippo's, rhino's and elephants from the pool seems to be a bit speciest, considering moose are allowed. In looking at the Wiki, it seems that hippos (1.5meters) and rhinos (2.0 meters) are actually generally smaller or the same size as the largest moose (2.1 metres) species. Elephants seem to average about a meter or two larger than the moose.

Perhaps a better restriction would be to allow any land mammal (and any sea mammal that is between the sizes of the minimum land mammal size and the maximum land mammal size), but set minimum and maximum furre sizes; something like a min of 1.2 metres or 4ft to a max of 2.0 metres or 7ft.

Anyways, I'll try and keep an eye on things and see if I can culture this idea I've got further. - 19:50, 10 January 2008 [[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]

== Theory on how the Change 'spreads' ==

Been thinking about how it might spread, such that we have a higher proportion of Changed in NA, but not leaving the rest of the world out, and I think I know how.

The 'computer virus' that Changes people, uses the RDF to spread itself. Our 'program's' own protection method is also spreading the damages.

Basically, I am guessing that if the RDF needs to kick in on you, then you are passively 'infected'.

Then, when August 17th comes around, the Virus triggers itself, but it for whatever reason can only copy itself for every previously Changed person. (The Doubling effect), and it can only affect people that have been passively infected, ie people who have had the RDF kick in on them.

The goal of the virus is to spread as far as it can, so it takes the number of new Changed it can, and spreads it more or less evenly across the available (RDF-affected) population.

So the first Changed is in Chicago (I think). Through the year until the next Change, she will encounter thousands of people, even in passing, which triggers the RDF on them and passively infects them.

Come August, 1988, the next Changed will be picked randomly from those thousands of people, and now we'll have 2 people spreading the RDF virus. 1989, a big chunk of Chicago has probably had the RDF trigger at least once, not to mention some tourists and other visitors to the city.

In 89, we get 2 more Changed, and one of them could possibly be in a different random city, just because he'd been to Chicago in the past 2 years and unknowingly seen a Changed, and a new nest of RDF-field affected people starts up.

European and Asian and Oceanic outbreaks could happen in years to come as the number of tourists and business people from those reasons travel into North America and begin to be fielded and infected themselves.

The 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City probably 'infected' most of the people who were around and watching, meaning that by then (if not before) pretty much anyone has a chance to be Changed.

It also means that truly isolated areas of the world (South Pacific islands, isolated Amazonian tribes, etc) could potentially be unchanged after the 2020 deadline; but any encounter at all with a Changed would likely Change them immediately and spread like wildfire through the village)

And while the RDF may 'fail' at some point, it'll probably still be around in a less effective form, trying to maintain some stability and spreading the Change. --[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]]
:I'll give that some thought. It's somewhat similar to something I already had in mind. Perhaps those who have the RDF fail completely will be much more likely to change the next year, or they might even change out-of-phase. In any case, once they figure out that it's like a communicable disease, and everyone is already 'infected', the remaining humans will go nuts. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 12:35, 27 January 2008 (EST)

== Change and disabilities? ==

I keep forgetting to bring this up on IRC, but how do people (as in writers and other interested people in this setting) think disabilities would be affected by the change? Both Mental and Physical?

Would a paraplegic who lost his legs in an accident regrow them if he changed? Would he regain the use of them if they weren't lost but just disabled? (back injury)? What about false teeth, deafness, blindness, etc?

What if the cause was not from a physical accident, but was viral or bacterial in nature? Some disease struck them blind? Would they stay blind?

And what if the disabilities were genetic? Would those genetic flaws still show in the new form?

Finally, what about mental disabilities? Could the Change 'cure' Alzheimer's? Would it affect someone who is literally a brain dead vegetable on life support?

If it does have curative properties, I suspect we'll start seeing more and more miracle cures (assuming they can survive the flu) in the years to come. Which may imply that there'll be a push in the early to mid 2010's to just keep someone alive as long as possible in the home they Change and are cured/fixed.

Thoughts?

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:I think there are good arguments to be made for some healing properties of the Change, but I wouldn't make it go all out. A person missing a limb should still be missing a limb after the change (I have in mind a scene with a one-armed pianist who goes monkey and starts playing with his feet).

:When it comes to things like Alzheimer's, that is a much more difficult choice. I don't see mental retardation being suddenly healed by the Change, as that is a birth defect (and such things happen in animals too). But progressive diseases may backtrack, even if the conditions begin to return over time. That could make an even more painful story, somebody suffering from Alzheimer's, who Changes and now recognizes all his family again. But after a year or so everything starts to slip away again...

:Anyway, the whole keeping folks alive and hoping for a Change could make a good dynamic too. I just think there's a lot fo possibilities to consider before we make a decision on this. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:24, 4 February 2008 (EST)
::I'm inclined to do as Matthias suggests. It's more or less what I had in mind. However, one of the things that the Change does is it puts everyone in very good health. Even being a 300 pound female bear, CM is in very good shape. It will cure some ailments, and put chronic diseases into remission. Those developments will confuse the medical community enough without regrowing limbs or curing Down's Syndrome. But if you've read the latest Tall Tales, ROB is being forced to act more openly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 15:40, 4 February 2008 (EST)

:What happens to medical devices like heart pacemakers or hip replacements that were implanted in people before they changed? --[[User:JeniSkunk|Jenifur Charne]] 20:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::That's basically an open-ended question. I'm going to leave the answer to that one unsaid because I think it'd be a good Plot Point in a story. A furry episode of ''House'' maybe? --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:45, 10 February 2008 (EST)

::Late into the discussion, but better late than never. : ) Anyway, what about things like fillings and caps on teeth? Going to a dentist would be interesting. Going another step, outside medical devices wouldn't fit anymore and would bring up some unique delimas. What about people with prosthetics? If someone turns into a bear, I'm sure their leg isn't going to fit anymore, yet Unknown will wonder why they make such a claim all of a sudden. Lots of places to go with these stories. [[User:Tinbender|Tinbender]] 21:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Hey, not really sure on any of the points raised, have to give it some thought. One thing to consider though is can anthro's act as a bridge to humans for viruses that currently only affect animals?--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 23:35, 10 February 2008 (EST)

== A mortal analysis of Paradise ==

Lets me see if I get some of the details right.

There is a post-singularity Uber-computer, that when projected into 3-space, has the same consistency as humanity's combined thumbnail and happens to be running a simulation of the events leading up to its own creation. Secondly, it gets infected by a super-bug/virus that makes borg nano-probes look overly large and cumbersome. Said post-singularity, sentient, ROB-type entity/ virus changes some lines of code (if such things can be referred to as such) in reference to the people in the simulation, in and around the vicinity of Chicago (maybe the super-bug's designers had way-distant ancestors from there, or whose ancestors had a grudge against the place). The Uber-comp, in a flash of inspiration counters with the 'firewall-from-not-heck', or RDF as we understand it. The ROB is still successful with its dastardly and despicable plan to make the simulated history end differently.

That I get as far as it can be understood by a three-dimensional entity not particularly versed in post-singularity, multi-dimensional physics and computational theory.

The RDF, The Veil, The "Really-Annoying-Mess-Up-Everyones-Lives" Field, appears to start collapsing or 'twisting' in several personal accounts. In fact, it would seem that there are certain individuals who have appeared to figure out means of 'gazing-past' the gaps in said previously mentioned field even though they do not have one of their own. Yes it has been theorized that they will soon fall victim to the ROB, however, consider that all of this is in one sense mere coding (albeit it happens to be far more complex than that), and that said people are taking advantage of 'bugs' in the code. How many bugs are there? Is it possible for someone (probably a changed, or mad scientist) to 'tune' or 'tinker' with the field, probably no more than tweaks to appearance or color? I know the Primary Engineer Of This Work has stated that there are no 'powers', but then again, this is all just code, and hackers can sometimes be just mortal.

Just a thought or two. I should probably stop this monologue before a super spy shows up.
~midon~

:You're pretty close overall, though the simulation doesn't necessarily have to be of the ROB's own creation. Human Earth could be something It came up with all by Itself. Another book that's similar to what I've come up with here is ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinia_(novel) Darwinia]''. Someone suggested that the best thing for the ROB to do is to restore from backup. The thing is, these are still people. ROB doesn't have a moral problem with allowing them to die within the sim, but will act to protect both itself and its people from an outside threat. Hence the RDF and other measures.--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 17:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)

== Thinking far future... ==

First, to make it VERY clear, I am NOT thinking of any stories or anything set in the 2020 period yet. I've just been thinking of how the world may be like by then, as the last half are about to change.

I suspect there would be a mix of celebration (the last humans are joining us!) and mourning (humans will no longer be as they were). Regionally, there will probably be searches for the "last human baby", the ones born days/hours before the last Aug 17 change; they'd probably be local celebrities, similar to "New Years Babies"

And in 2021, the nervousness would start. Is the change source gone? Is it mutating? Are we going to change further? Or into something else now? For the Changed Generation, that little shiver of fear every August 17th will probably persist until they are all gone.

All that assumes civilization hasn't fallen apart by then of course. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:42, 25 February 2008 (EST)

== Summer Olympics ==

This was nagging at the back of my mind a bit, but I finally nailed it down to actually check dates:

:"The 2008 Summer Olympics, officially known as the Games of the XXIX Olympiad, will be celebrated from August 8, 2008 to August 24, 2008".

For the record, the 2004 Olympics also just straddled the Change day, having started on Aug 13th. No other Summer Olympics have straddled Change day, but the 1996 games ended just before it, and the Paralympic Games that year did straddle the Change day.

The 2012 games in London curiously have a break between the end of the Olympics on Aug 12, 2012, and the start of the Paralympics on Aug 29.

Just something to think about for writers out there. :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

:The Change takes place right in the middle of the Olympics. All it takes is for one or two athletes to change to gum up the works. These people are already in top physical shape, too. But what happens when a swimmer becomes a dolphin, an otter, or perhaps something that doesn't swim well? I don't think the RDF can handle becoming as large as a rhino. They'll still displace an awful lot of water when they splash in.

:I'll have to mention this in Open Secrets.

:--[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:53, 27 February 2008 (EST)

::At least the illness will be a bit of a cover. Depending on how many Changed athletes there are, (both active and new Changed), the illness could be used to skip out on some events out of necessity.

::Still the pressure to perform, even if their form is inappropriate for the sport (A Bull trying to do a polevault or the triathlon in general? A bear for gymnastics? A Mouse in weightlifting? ) will be intense

::There would probably be a lot of discussion when a star athlete suddenly isn't performing as well as they did before.

::Of course, a few years after that, the Beijing Olympics here will probably end up with a * like the LA and Moscow Olympics, as people find out about the Change and the number of ringers (otters in swimming events, felines and primates in gymnastics, gazelles and cheetahs in track events, bears and bulls in weight lifting, etc...) semi-intentionally sent by the various countries. We could very well see TTC-level problems happening in Olympic Village.

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:07, 27 February 2008 (EST)

== What happens ''after'' 2020? ==

Point one: Computer programs are never ''intrinsically'' equipped with an off-switch. Rather, a shutdown condition must be explicitly coded into a program -- and any program which ''lacks'' an explicit shutdown condition, will continue to chug merrily along until something hardware-ish gets in the way.

Point two: The Change is the result of a 'furry virus", ''i.e.,'' a '''computer program'''.

2020 is when the entire planetary population will be furry... but who's to say the 'furry virus' won't ''continue'' to do its thing, Changing people year in and year out, with each year's quantity of Changes being double that of the year before? We know that being Changed is ''not'' an absolute protection against the 'furry virus' -- the setting rules themselves ''explicitly allow'' previously-Changed people to get hit with another dose of Change, after all -- so ''either'' (a) the 'furry virus' ''does'' have an explicitly-coded off-switch, or else (b) starting in 2020, an ever-increasing number of people are going to end up Changing ''two or more times in any given year.''

If the 'furry virus' ''has'' a built-in off-switch, that begs the question of what, exactly, its shutdown condition ''is.'' Does it stop spreading/infecting when there's no unchanged Human left, is it waiting for some specific event or combination of events before it quits, or what? Perhaps the guy who wrote the 'furry virus' did so with the specific intent of encouraging ROB to make [insert specific changes here] in ROB's virtual world, such that the results of those changes are the virus's 'off-switch'?

If, on the other hand, the 'furry virus' has ''no'' built-in brakes, things can get weird, fast. People have already floated the notion of Changes happening "out of season"; what if these 'unscheduled' Changes are merely a harbinger of things to come, in which people can be re-zapped at any time of year, an arbitrarily large number of times per year? It may be instructive, or at least amusing, to extrapolate the data given in "The Numbers", and divide each year's expected number of Changes by the expected population for that year: In 2020, there's 1.12 Changes per person (perhaps every human being Changes, regardless of their current state, and there's a 12% chance of one guy Changing ''twice?).'' Since we're basically talking about a doubling function, it only takes until 2024 for every ex-human to be an involuntary member of the Change Of The Month Club (because there's a touch over 17 Changes per person that year), and the Change Of The '''Day''' Club starts up in 2029 (during which year there's a bit less than 514 Changes per person per year). In 2034, the extrapolated number of Changes per person for that year is significantly over 15,000 (which works out to about 7/4 of a Change ''per hour,'' every hour, for every human being); by 2040, we hit 1.75 Changes per ''minute;'' 2046 is when every human being starts to hit 1 Change per ''second.''

To repeat what I said above: Things get weird, fast.

Obviously, the above figures are ridiculous, since they're derived from mindless extrapolation of an exponential curve. Perhaps the most sensible way to go is to presume that ROB manages to ''do'' something about the metatstasizing 'furry virus' no later than 2025 or so. In any case, one hopes said figures at least provide a bit of food for thought... [[User:Cubist|Cubist]] 05:03, 10 March 2008 (EDT)

== Change and the Media ==

It's probably a sign that I watch WAY too much TV, but it's a theme that's been in the back of my mind (man that back area's getting mighty crowded with ideas). As the Change progresses, even with the Veil in place, more and more effects of the Change will start showing up in other ways, and it will become more and more 'public' even if the Unchanged won't really know what is going on. I suspect TV shows especially will begin to show a lot of these.

This is just some of my rambling thoughts on what the TV Cable signals might be sending to the screens of the Changed near-Future.

Reality TV in all its forms will probably be the first to really start showing the effects of the Changed, since they tend to have the fastest turnaround time and the most contact with non-actors. Court shows (like I wrote in my short story case) will have more and more cases of Changed vs Norms and even weird Changed vs Changed cases. "He won't share the nail clippers!" "She gifted me the money for the vacation to Alaska in January")

Gameshows also will start having more Changed contestants, especially popular ones like Price is Right.

And then you have the Survivor types. Show's like "Top Model" and "Bachelor(ette)" and "Blind Date" (especially given the Change's habit of giving the Changed Eye-turning bodies) will probably have the most Changed on a show early on (whether intentionally or unintentionally).

Home Makeover shows may start seeing even weirder designs as designers/homeowners remake rooms to give room for antlers or bigger buttons for hoof fingers and such. (We thought Frank's designs on Trading Spaces were weird BEFORE he Changed... :P )

Amazing Race may have a Changed Team soon; a few Changed in the Big Brother House (probably intentionally put in there by a Changed Studio staffer), and the next Survivor or two would probably have some contestants.

Once the Field comes down, I fully expect CBS to roll out a "Furries vs Normals" Survivor while they can.

Now onto more tasteful TV. (arguably :P )

Cartoons? (what few new ones that are made) will likely start having more and more of a furry bend to them. Hallowe'en specials may turn 'human' toons into furry ones as experiments to transition shows.

Soaps? Expect Change stories fairly soon I dare say. I don't watch them myself, but from what I've heard of some storylines they've done in the past, the Change isn't all that strange. These writers will probably be chaffing at the restrictions of the Field the most.

Sitcoms will probably start getting Changed in-jokes fairly quickly as more Changed writers and actors come on staff. Some of the jokes may verge on Veil-breaking too, but viewers would discount as visual FX.

Procedurals/Drama's, business as normal but more Change-related stories. Maulings and gorings investigated on CSI's (along with strange fingerprints/bootprints, hair samples, etc...), Without a Trace investigating people who disappear after Change Day, maybe even a TG mystery. Numb3rs maybe touching on the Change rate (imagine Chris brought in as an advisor for an ep ? :) ). House or ER dealing with a Changed patient and/or Changed doctors/nurses.

And finally (for now) Sci Fi/Fantasy shows will probably find themselves in a very difficult position. On the one hand, they'd be ideal to start exploring the Change itself. On the other hand, as long as the Field is in effect, they can't really explore them since they'd have to turn normals into Furry's (or dress furry's in fursuits). Plus, a show's setting may not exactly be ideal for adjusting to the Change. "SG-1/Atlantis" may be able to adjust (turn it into an Ori curse or something), but Terminator would have a harder time. Heroes could probably pull it off, but BSG? Unlikely. (Imagine them finding 'Earth' but it's a Furry Earth... Hmmm...)

Anyways, that's just some of my rambling thoughts on the TV of the near future, for what its worth.

:There's a simple way to make furries show up in Television. Simply use the polarized lenses as featured in Open Secrets on the video camera units. The image of the furries would pass through the polarized lenses onto the film. The film would record the true image in the same way that people would see the true image. Boom, RDF circumvented. --[[User:MatthiasRat|MatthiasRat]] 12:26, 28 January 2009 (EST)

:: True those would work. But everyone involved for those scenes would have to Know or questions would be raised. Depending on the scene and production. (Thouhg some could be handwaved, as long as the producer/editors Know. "Bob's gonna play the part of a man-rat for this scene. We'll CG-replace him in Editing afterward"

::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 12:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)

::: Well, at the very least, the cameraman is going to be in the know fast! Actually, I could see something like this being done once things go public. We could have a documentary on the early Changed (while you can still get human actors!), and you'd have some cameras with the filter on it and some without so you could show what the Changed sees and what the unsuspecting humans around him see. --[[User:98.236.12.68|98.236.12.68]] 05:14, 29 January 2009 (EST)

:::: That is happening to some extent, though not with the filters yet. Shiloh (and her new boyfriend newly Changed this year) are doing what they can to document the Change and how it affects lives as it happens (on the side from their main jobs), and I'm sure she's far from alone on this.

:::: Once more Documentary makers get ahold of this and it goes public, I'm sure there will be more too.

::::--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 10:33, 29 January 2009 (EST)

== Furries in Space? ==

OK Time for even more thoughts from me. :) Endeavor's launch last night triggered this thought.

I'm not going to elaborate, but is anyone watching the ISS crew for change symptoms? Or the shuttle crew if they're up? A Change up there could be Veil breaking just because of the amount of attention and lack of privacy those people have. (not to mention the extreme circumstances they'd be under).

The Change itself could very well spell the end of Manned space flight for the next few decades in the end.

Not sure if it would spell the end of manned space flight but yeah even just an examination of the air filter would find stuff that couldn't have gotten up there any other way.--[[User:Devin|Devin]] 19:16, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

:I'm sure it'd be the end of manned space flight for quite some time simply for economic reasons if nothing else. This is going to be rather disruptive and there'll probably be a bit of a budget pinch. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==The Reality Distortion Field is Real ==

Sadly, not the one you have in mind: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/18/2117208 :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:21, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

== Bats? ==

Just a question about the species: I've noticed you put aside birds for now, but what about bats?--[[User:142.68.130.19|142.68.130.19]] 23:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Bats will put a huge strain on the Veil. If/when they do show up, it might be coming down by then anyway. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 00:36, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Farming in Paradise ==

Just shooting an idea in here for later. [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080410153658.htm This is the technology] widely deployed it the Paradise setting. But put the clock back ten years (1997 discovery, widespread global deployment by 2008). Biochar/agrichar. With any luck, the Green Revolution will be replaced with the Black Gold Revolution quickly. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 03:27, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== BioFuels ==

Jon, you're beginning to scare me a bit. :P

This was just on Slashdot this morning: [http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/04/23/biofuel_microbe/ New Source for Biofuels Discovered by Researchers At The University of Texas at Austin]

Basically, some bacteria that can make cellulose which can be turned to fuel, and the cellulose can be harvested without harming the bacteria.
--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 06:10, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I read about this yesterday. They hope to increase production efficiency 17-fold because otherwise, you'd have to cover the ''entire'' Midwest with this. Unfortunately it won't happen fast enough to prevent the shortages I know are coming.

:I read about this stuff every day. I mean, ''every'' day. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:19, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Another bit of news: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece "Scientists find bugs that eat waste and excrete petrol."] --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 11:12, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Chicago Ghost Killer ==

After having seen countless videos of Persona 3 on youtube, and having played the .hack//GU games, and having read about this setting repeatedly, this idea was born out of my skull. It doesn't really fit with the setting per-say, (people dealing with expected changes in their lives and the changing of culture as truth becomes harder and harder to keep hidden), but it's still interesting.

Imagine if once the number of furries hits the thousand mark or close to it (1997), a strange series of murders begin in Chiago and wander outwards. To normal police and investigators these people have -nothing- in common, just random innocent people. But the furries know that every single person killed was a furry! Now this is where things start to get weird.

When seen by furries, the killer is a lanky laid back twenty something raven haired young man whose expression almost always remains passive wearing semi-formal dark clothes with a revolver in one hand and spare bullets in the opposite pocket.

When the police just about anyone else whose effected by the perception filter see him, they see 'Average Joe' or 'Face You Can't Help But Forget' and never ever notice the weapon he's holding unless he hits them with it or shoots them or something just as drastic. It is also is picked up by metal detectors the same as any metal gun. In other words, his existence, is like the existence of furriness to normal humans, his existence effects them, but they can't notice him directly.

This guy always knows a furry when he sees one regardless of media or medium, or reads one, this include file records of people TGed by the virus. When he spots one or finds out about one, he calmly location that person, in order of him learning about them, and shoot that person in the head without fanfare then simply move on to the next one.

Physically his strength and speed are all perfectly average human, meaning a bear or tiger furry could easy tear him apart.

Strange thing is that if profiled, no records of him will turn up, anywhere!

Also, he might even begin to appear DIFFERENTLY to people who are under the effect of the perception filter. He can't appear as a furry, and can NEVER EVER appear as a precise person (he can't appear as someone's mother or brother). But he can ultimately change how people look at him, they see a five year old girl with a teddy bear opposed to a man with a revolver even if he STILL can't fit in a toy car for the life of him and that 'bear' might go off if someone else 'hugs' it, (which he'd avoid someone doing at all posts). He could also appear as a fire fighter or police officer if he gets clever enough. Though furries will -always- see through this disguise. Along with any human whose able to see furries without effort.

The Chicago Ghost Killer never attacks non-changed humans, and will never take a shot if there's a reasonable chance of shooting a non-changed person.

He travels by mundane methods, he always travels by the most practical and speedy method and always has the correct change or ticket (this is not an illusion). His taxi, train, or airplane never crash.

If detained for questioning, he might just walk straight out of the police station unless some of the cops are furries. If stripped of his weapon and ammo next time he shows up he'll have a new set perfectly identical to the last one down to the imperfections in the casing.

Now this is where things get ambiguous. I don't know if he's killed he just appears in Chicago the day after the change again each year, or weather two different people with abilities similar to his appear in his stead these armed with a crossbow and another one shot distance weapon.

Since deleting the entire universe is not an option, The Chicago Ghost Killer might be an emergency fail safe to try and cut off the infected flesh from the system.

His name comes from where he started killing (strangely the same place as the changes began) and the fact that to normal humans he IS like a ghost, there yet not there but decidedly felt.

I know this doesn't really fit with the setting at all, but I just had to share it with the only people who'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

- Alex Warlorn. 2008 06 15

:And his name is Agent Johnathan Walker Smith, is it? Seems like a Matrix Agent to me... (unsigned comment)
::Actually I don't think he'd -have- a name, or even know the true nature of the world, he'd just know what he -had- to do and how to do it and how he can do it.-- Alex Warlorn

== Octuplets born in California ==

Things that make you go Hmmmm....

8 babies at once
Planning to breast feed them all.
Names not being released (yet).

Could we have a changed couple hiding out there from the glare of the media spotlight? :)

--[[User:Jetfire|Jetfire]] 15:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)

=='''Future RDF Failure'''==

I'm starting to work out ideas about how the RDF would fail. My current thinking is that it will work on a small scale first. Visually, there would be a "refraction", like seeing your own eyes through your glasses. Or your leg halfway in a pool. This is the "Refraction Effect". These are places where the RDF has been removed, like a section of glass, revealing the Real World underneath. It's gone. The visual effect makes it clear a border's been crossed. I'm not sure ''when'' this is going to happen. Probably sometime near the US Gov wants to go public. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 07:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

===Weirdness Censor?===

I've been thinking about an "RDF Lite" that could basically act as a Weirdness Censor instead of the full blown see-furries-as-humans version that exists right now. There'd still be social upheaval, but not the civilization-ending type that would most likely happen. I'm very likely going to do this in After Hours, but I want to do it right. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

==The "Posthuman" World ==

In order to differentiate this setting from WoC more, I'm going to keep a certain number of regular humans in the furry world that results when the virus runs its course. Same rules as other furry types as far as parent-child species. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:41, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

:No offense, but that feels like a cop-out to me. As someone else pointed out, a computer virus is NOT going to simply 'burn itself out' a computer virus continues like any program infinitely unless it's directly ordered to. Once it runs out of humans to transform, it'll start to transform furries into other species, and become even more chaotic as time progresses. I just feels cheap the virus suddenly just stops, and it doesn't make sense form a programming point of view either since it would open MANY MORE cans of worms anyway. -- Alex Warlorn June 15 2009

:How is that going to work? I'm not sure how humanity can propagate by the "same rules" as other furry types given that it's been established humans and furres are not able to interbreed. Perhaps there might be an inverse of the Sleeping Sickness (a Waking Sickness? :) which causes furries to randomly mutate back into human in addition to the other types of furry form? —[[User:Robotech Master|Robotech Master]] 22:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

::Two thoughts: 1) In 2021 there's a group of humans worldwide who don't Change. They're simply the one species among many. After this point they can breed with furres because the RDF is down anyway. Perhaps they can already do this in Bubbled areas in 2010. 2) Human forms can be a recessional trait that shows up on occasion, between two furres.

::Furry babies already look ''very'' human due to a type of neoteny. Even the herbivores like horses and deer have very stubby muzzles. It looks more like a mask when they're born. Within two years those muzzle stubs grow the "baby animal" proportions, then as normal. They're generally more thinly furred for those first two years also. I keep thinking of puppies. No matter what the breed, they all look ''extremely'' similar when newborn. Same will be true in this setting. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 23:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, TG and TF will continue. I'm thinking of something akin to Matthias' character, with random changes. It'll be considered a chronic disease. And the severe forms ''can'' kill you. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 06:40, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

== Possibly the first occurance of ROB ==

As I mentioned when I introduced him, ROB (Random Omnipotent Being) comes from some other message boards I regularly view/visit. Well someone seems to have found what may have been the first occurrence of ROB. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=53955] Pretty humble beginnings for him if you ask me. :) (His brother, COROB (Crossover Obsessed Random Omnipotent Being) similarly had humble beginnings a month or so later. [http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=55397] )

Talk:Halloween Night

2008-10-27T18:17:50Z

71.131.113.134:

I actually wrote a story with this theme myself called Wicked Roots. It's on my Costume TF Fan yahoo group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CostumeTFFans/

Though I was aiming more for corruption and insidiousness than horror.

Alex Warlorn -- 2008 09 22

== Can you add to Shifti? ==

I wonder if you add this story to shifti? I try yahoo but it would let me in b/c it thinks I'm underage when I'm not. So can you please add this stoy? P.S. I'm doing a story like this.

Gonna likely regret this. But done.

--Alex Warlorn 2008 09 25

Suggestions: Make this less like a clone of the buffy episode. Consider what adds to the story and what doesn't. Consider why one is mentally effect and the others are not. Consider why two ended up a humanoid animals and one didn't. Consider what makes sense and what doesn't. I felt very left in the dark about a lot of things here. And the relationship between Chaos and the store owner seems to flip flop on itself. What made them think that their enemy would EVEN leave town in those few hours? Consider these things and -think- about it. Remember the reader doesn't know what you know. Nor is likely to draw the same conclusions as you. Just some friendly advice.

--ALex Warlorn 2008 10 27

Talk:Halloween Night

2008-10-27T18:15:50Z

71.131.113.134:

Talk:Walker Imperial Ranger

2008-04-04T19:33:45Z

71.131.113.134:

Actually, I was on vacation over the weekend and it turned out to be rather more active than I was expecting so my plan to work on the story went awry. Some friends and I went out to the mountains in a convoy of two cars, and one of the cars broke down spectacularly just short of our destination. Couldn't fit everyone into just one car. :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:37, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Ah, okay. Understood. Murphy's Law... Something similar once happened with my dad, his friends, and a canoe trip, but he never wanted to talk about it. Hey, I'm curious - when, if ever, are you and/or Jon going to upload that Spirit Path story? I found it again while perusing the Archive, and lost an afternoon rereading it. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 21:31, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:I'm very reluctant to upload any story so directly self-referential. So there's a bunch of stuff that'll never show up on Shifti, including my TBP stories. Glad you liked the story, though. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:58, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Huh. Alright. I'd been wondering since I saw "Against Type". Good to know. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 13:27, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Finally making some progress on the story. May be a couple of hours before I upload it yet, just thought you might like to know there'll be something available in the morning. I was amazed to see that almost a month has passed since I last added to this, RL has been quite disruptive (and I've been quite undisciplined, too). [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 00:36, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm actually looking foreword to seeing what the mind of an AT-AT would be like.

Alex Warlorn 2008 04 04 3 44 AM PST

:Hey, you're not supposed to be reading yet! :) (next up is a bit of writing about Steph, but there'll be Garrett content in that section too so hopefully that'll satisfy :)[[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 11:55, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:What Bryan said! And seriously, get an account here and post your stuff already. You won't get spammed. Seeing a chain of numbers instead of a username on the "Recent Changes" page is annoying.
Garrett's TF was everything I could have hoped for, more or less. Going to have to play around with my section. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 15:24, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

After I've completed some of my current projects perhaps I shall. (give me a few weeks). Please don't use that name when I don't please. And thanks Bryan, as anyone will tell you, I'm addicted to mental change TF. My only regret is that Steph didn't have time to come with a back story for his character.
Alex Warlorn 2008 04 04 12:28 PM PST

Talk:Walker Imperial Ranger

2008-04-04T19:33:00Z

71.131.113.134:

Actually, I was on vacation over the weekend and it turned out to be rather more active than I was expecting so my plan to work on the story went awry. Some friends and I went out to the mountains in a convoy of two cars, and one of the cars broke down spectacularly just short of our destination. Couldn't fit everyone into just one car. :) [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 19:37, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Ah, okay. Understood. Murphy's Law... Something similar once happened with my dad, his friends, and a canoe trip, but he never wanted to talk about it. Hey, I'm curious - when, if ever, are you and/or Jon going to upload that Spirit Path story? I found it again while perusing the Archive, and lost an afternoon rereading it. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 21:31, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:I'm very reluctant to upload any story so directly self-referential. So there's a bunch of stuff that'll never show up on Shifti, including my TBP stories. Glad you liked the story, though. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 22:58, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:Huh. Alright. I'd been wondering since I saw "Against Type". Good to know. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 13:27, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Finally making some progress on the story. May be a couple of hours before I upload it yet, just thought you might like to know there'll be something available in the morning. I was amazed to see that almost a month has passed since I last added to this, RL has been quite disruptive (and I've been quite undisciplined, too). [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 00:36, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm actually looking foreword to seeing what the mind of an AT-AT would be like.

Alex Warlorn 2008 04 04 3 44 AM PST

:Hey, you're not supposed to be reading yet! :) (next up is a bit of writing about Steph, but there'll be Garrett content in that section too so hopefully that'll satisfy :)[[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 11:55, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

:What Bryan said! And seriously, Lenz, get an account here and post your stuff already. You won't get spammed. Seeing a chain of numbers instead of a username on the "Recent Changes" page is annoying.
Garrett's TF was everything I could have hoped for, more or less. Going to have to play around with my section. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 15:24, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

After I've completed some of my current projects perhaps I shall. (give me a few weeks). Please don't use that name when I don't please. And thanks Bryan, as anyone will tell you, I'm addicted to mental change TF. My only regret is that Steph didn't have time to come with a back story for his character.
Alex Warlorn 2008 04 04 12:28 PM PST

User talk:Mona Lisa/Being Tanda

2008-03-20T17:17:22Z

71.131.113.134:

This story presents realistic questions if reality DIDN'T change if someone got TFed into their furry persona and didn't get mental changed either. And how you can have a functional life.

I figured that it would have been blood from the pet cat's claws ambush that would tip off her sister.

Her sister seems a bit too excited at her brother having changed genders. And her sister also appears to have some natural bias against males. Any chance of that being why they drifted apart, or was it something else?

Any real reason why Jaz hasn't worn that skirt before?

I'm sadly dissapointed in silvercat, given how he acted like a perfect gentleman from the moment they met to when Tanda woke up on the couch, and it wasn't even his idea for her to visit his house, I'm wonder what the heck happened to cause his personality to turn 180 degrees like that!! (There's also the fact he knows where she lives.)

Looking foreword to reading more. The story so far has been amazing. In particular how in spite of the singular strangeness of what happened to Tim, the rest of the story appear to be going pretty realistically, with Tanda the stranger in a strange land.

--Alex Warlorn 2008 Eight day of Christ Mass.

Thank you!

Alex, thank you for your comments, I really appreciate that you took the time to give well-thought-out notes. I realize that Silvercat's betrayal seemed a bit out of the blue. I'll be writing some more from his perspective to fill in the gap, so hopefully that will help. Not so much as to make the act forgivable, just make more sense.

I'm also glad you appreciate what I think is a unique perspective. As far as I know, there aren't many other Furry TFs from this "realistic" point of view where there isn't a significant amount of personality alteration.

I won't say any more so as to not spoil anything except: thanks for the positive and helpful comments! You totally inspired me to work some more on the story. Coming soon, I promise!

--Mona Lisa 2008, January 12th

Added some more conversation at the beach, lengthened the scene of the attack to give a bit more of Silvercat's perspective, and added a shopping trip. =D

--Mona Lisa 2008, January 13th

Still following the basic premise of 'fantasy stuck in reality without any super powers' I see, and it's WORKING.

Thanks for not making Silver vanish into thin air after he 'served his purpose' of giving Tanda her first taste of dark ugly female reality. It would have felt cheap.

And Christine did make a point about the whole credit card thingie. Reminds me almost of the cursed vixen costume story on the original Transformation Story Archive (and I do mean cursed).

Alex Warlorn, 2008, January 20th.

Added some fun stuff: meeting with Wendy, some stuff on FurryMUCK and so forth.

--Mona Lisa 2008, March 16th

"But wasn't Tanda supposed to be witty? Social? Outgoing? Wasn't that the reason she'd made the wish?"
She has a very good point. What the point of the wish, of all she gets is the window dressing? Since she's sort of a reculsive, she shouldn't have TOO much trouble living a normal life as long as she doesn't get pulled in jury duty or need a doctor's appointment, or something else where she'd end up making headline news. I seriously doubt she'd be disected like in the movie, but some people might think she's infected by some alien plague.

But back slight on topic, if 'Tanda' is supposed to have the personality traits that Tim desired, shouldn't she have gotten those as part of the package deal? Though then Tim would no longer be Tim, but since she's already calling herself Tanda and having that be that on that subject, I doubt she'd be scared to take that last step.

It seems the wish didn't work out as planned then, if he just got Tanda's form, but not her personality traits.

--Alex Warlorn 2008 March 20th

Talk:The Pornography Trap

2008-03-08T01:19:57Z

71.131.113.134: New page: It's strange. But why I believe full heartedly in reading the transformation as it occures, I prefer that the victim be oblivious to the change, and that the words 'changed' or 'transform'...

It's strange. But why I believe full heartedly in reading the transformation as it occures, I prefer that the victim be oblivious to the change, and that the words 'changed' or 'transform' are never used, and that you are only able to tell of the transformation itself, by the sublime, then radical changes in the terms used in the narrative and POV. Sometimes it is more transparent than others, but it is when you are able to realize a transformation is happen, even when the narrative does not, that in my humble opinion is art.

-- Matthew Lenz 2008 03 7th (worried about spam if registered)

Talk:The Perils of Voice Acting

2008-02-20T19:46:55Z

71.131.113.134:

Very, very nice, Joysweeper. The TG was handled well for both characters. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 14:11, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Later: So, now Peter is Arkadais, and his daughter Sarah is the Little Brother. Well, at least they're still family. :) Seriously, you've done a very good job setting up this fictional 80s cartoon. I can see Arkadais' personality has insinuated itself into Peter's mode of thinking (''Sugar!''). But Peter remains more or less intact as a person. But now she gets to be a fifteen year old girl to boot...

At any rate, I imagine Arkadais herself as a tomboyish girl who hates being mistaken for a boy, but uses it to her advantage when necessary. The show itself seems to be a mixture of He-Man and Conan the Barbarian. I can actually imagine the opening sequence of he cartoon (probably animated by the same company that did Transformers and GI Joe). In the opening shot, the camera speeds along towards a high ridge, getting closer to Arkadais and her companions (4-5 of them). She draws her sword, which glows and fires off a beam, which the camera follows. Segue into a montage of action scenes from various episodes.

Every 80s cartoon had a toy line, of course. The show was probably intended to appeal to boys and girls alike, which might have accounted for its failure. They tried to mash He-Man and She-Ra together in a tomboyish female protagonist, and it didn't quite work out. --[[User:JonBuck|Buck]] 19:16, 19 February 2008 (EST)

:Heh. I wonder what she'll think of her action figures. Those things are often a little extreme in their proportions, but in her case it'll have to be pretty accurate. :) Good to see more secondary TFs in Xanadu, they spread the joy. I wonder if Deuvoci's really satisfied, or if she's going to be continuing to try to tweak her surroundings to match the story she's imagining. With all those minds bundled up in he there's plenty of room for new issues to crop up. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 22:49, 19 February 2008 (EST)

Arkadais and Chalvic might have the memories of Peter and Sarah, but that seems to be all, just as Deuvoci remembers the memories of all the many, many fans that make her up (I think of Ami's Song when Nick became Sailor Mercury, she had Nick's memories and still loved her family, but she knew she wasn't Nick). This was really an in-depth story in spite of it's length, and a absolutely positively fantastic read. Check your mail for another deeper review.

I wish you had an IM program, I could discuss this story all day and all night!

--Matthew Lenz/Alex Warlorn 4:18 PM, 19 February 2008 (PST)

I couldn't wait to say this. It's clear that Deuvoci 'aura of effect' that happened to Peter and Sarah, and possibly shadow mountain, has to do (IMHO at least) not only with the power of story telling, but the conbined BELIEF the multiude of die-hard fans had for the show that got crammed into one character that was Deuvoci. Nearly all the other character's were born out of the belief of one person (save type like everyone's eastern dragon), but Deuvoci was born out of SEVERAL fans who LOVED the little show that lasted only one season. And I doubt we have seen the last of this effect, though I doubt it'll cause any human misery (would be out of character for the story), and would be a totaly cheat on the happy ending we've had.

--Matthew Lenz/Alex Warlorn 4:36 PM, 19 February 2008 (PST)

Hey, comments ''and'' an addition to Bryan's Picks! Wow! :D

Thanks Jon! From you, that means a lot. I really didn't go into detail or serious changes in thinking, though... didn't really fit the story. Everyone who writes Xanadu has a different "type" of person they like to focus on, it seems. Mine is cosplayers.

I really think it's a pity that so few TF stories feature the families of those who changed. It's like almost everyone is an orphan with one or two people they've known since childhood, at most. Hopefully, the next story, if I go with the bird instead of the jury duty one, will focus on that even more. It's rather ambitious... I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew.

Thank you! "Sugar" was really Peter's idea from the beginning - you know how some parents try not to swear around their kids. I had no idea how Arkadais would swear... still, the word gets repeated a lot. Sooner or later I should go back in and replace a few of those with "fudge" or something.

You've got it right on the nose. :) Arkadais has one Berserk Button - she usually becomes comically furious when unobservant people call her "boy", which happens fairly often. It's never serious, she just shouts and glares crazily and usually ends up helping them anyway. I was more than a little inspired by the example of Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist and the way he freaks out anytime it's hinted that he's on the small side. I didn't really think about the title sequence, but that sounds about right. The theme song would be very energetic and enthusiastic, and there'd probably be at least one fast-moving action sequence that never appeared in the show. I love those.

Thanks Bryan! I copied a passage from your text, inventing an 80s series so I wouldn't get a real one wrong - I'm not old enough to have watched those series when they were at their peak. I really wanted to do something with voice/and or regular actors - originally I was thinking of a blog-style post about, for example, Hugo Weaving being abducted. Because seriously, the man voiced Megatron, and he played Elrond and Agent Smith, and probably more people that I know nothing about - surely ''someone'' from Xanadu would be a little confused and angry. I actually just really like the idea of characters blaming their actors or creators for their problems.

What do you mean by newsletter? I don't know if there'll be action figures now. I'm not actually sure what happens after this - they do get recruited by Project X at some point, but other than that, I don't know. I'm not adverse to them cameo'ing if the chance comes up, though. :)

Chalvic was about as enthusiastic and fearless as Sarah, but he was also a little less friendly with strange things and people. Both of them were pretty young; Sarah was just starting to memorize her storybooks, the step that comes right before learning to read early, so I'd say she was three or four, which makes Chalvic only a year or so older, and boys develop slower than girls anyway. I'd say the Chalvic at the end of the story was mostly Sarah. Similarly, Arkadais is still at least partially Peter, not just in memories. She's a bit more of a realist than the series character was.

Shadow Mountain is still a pathetic little hill, but that confrontation took a surprisingly long time. I actually stole that hill from an anecdote one of my professors used once... still, I don't specify where it is, so all's well. I won't specify how many fans passed out of existence for Deuvoci, but the number does limit how much changing can be effected. As do situations. I don't really plan on doing much if anything more with these guys, really.

I have a very clear mental image of Arkadais draped over an office chair, legs over an armrest and belly up, chewing on a pen and filling out paperwork. In the background Chalvic is playing with some random creature that looks terribly fearsome, and Deuvoci is crouched under the desk so that her eyes glow, either feeling guilty about existing or trying to decide out if she should spring for the Cheetos or the trail mix. There was no way to work it into the story, but the Arkadais at the end still enjoys the accounting-type stuff that Peter was good at. --[[User:Joysweeper|Joysweeper]] 23:06, 19 February 2008 (EST)

:The "newsletter" comment was just a Simpsons reference, where at one point someone was explaining something to Homer and he responded "Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter." I use the phrase commonly with my RL buddies so don't mind me. :) Anyway, that's a fun mental image. It didn't make it into this story but who knows? You wound up writing a sequel to 501st, maybe these guys will make an appearance in some future story too. [[User:Bryan|Bryan]] 23:24, 19 February 2008 (EST)

I guess I'm just a sucker for mental change and all that jazz, that's how I interpreted the story as being, and I'm kinda stubborn about that. Did ya get my mail? And AS for the differences in character: to point out, when any series gets restarted, there are going to be some changes and recons of character (with our main character being a bit more realistic about the world, and her brother being a bit more mature). Plus, it's possible the black beast just wanted to lure her to the dark tower as a pretense, so they discuss turning on her evil master, since she could could NEVER do it out in the open, and what better way to get someone's attention than by kidnapping her little brother?
I know you said you didn't think things through as much some have read into it: but SERIOUSLY, it's like sudoku. They fill in the blanks logically. Just go with it.

-- Alex Warlorn 2008 Feb 19th 9:30 PM PST

Did you ever get my e-mail? I never got a reply. Like I said, this story just got me VERY VERY excited.
And it's funny, in the series, depending how much effort was put into it: I can imagine people asking what a 'country bumpkin' is doing with a 'fancy sword like that?' in the series.

-- Alex Warlorn/Matthew Lenz 2008 Feb 20th 11:45 AM PST

Talk:Slinx

2008-02-20T01:09:35Z

71.131.113.134: New page: Shall we ever see the sequel to this tale that you were working on? Alex Warlorn/Matthew Lenz 2008 Feb 19 5:09 PM PST

Shall we ever see the sequel to this tale that you were working on? Alex Warlorn/Matthew Lenz 2008 Feb 19 5:09 PM PST

Talk:The Perils of Voice Acting

2008-02-20T00:31:08Z

71.131.113.134:

Talk:The Perils of Voice Acting

2008-02-20T00:22:50Z

71.131.113.134: